I don’t understand. Why did Johnson go on air and announce an attack that didn’t happen?


Vietnam was a French colony from mid-19th century until 1954 when they signed a treaty at Geneva Conference, which temporarily separated the North communists from the South anti-communists at the 17th parallel, after the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu.

The French lost control of Vietnam approximately when the Korean War ended, which had left the country partitioned into North and South Korea with China and the USSR actively supporting the North communist government. Then U.S. President Dwight Eisenhower regarded Vietnam as Korea all over again and feared the whole Southeast Asia including Laos, Cambodia and Thailand would fall to communism in a domino effect similar to what had happened in Eastern Europe (Domino theory). The loss of that essential regional trading area would encourage Taiwan, Japan, Australia and New Zealand to compromise politically with communism. Therefore, the U.S. intervened in Vietnam trying to keep the South Vietnamese “domino” from falling.


Why did we go after non-existent WMD’s in Iraq? Same kind of deal.


These types of patrols had previously been conducted off the coasts of the Soviet Union, China, and North Korea, but are widely recognized for their role in the Vietnam War.[1] There were three components to the purpose of these patrols. First, they would establish and maintain the presence of the U.S. Seventh Fleet in the international waters off the China coast and later the Vietnamese coast. Second, they would serve as a minor Cold War irritant to the Chinese Communists. Third, they would collect as much intelligence as possible during the patrols.[3]

The tactical purpose of the patrols in Vietnam was to intercept North Vietnamese Army intelligence and relay it to South Vietnamese Army forces. With the intercepted communications, the South Vietnamese were able to more effectively coordinate their raids. The destroyers taking part in the DESOTO patrols in Vietnam were accompanied by air support provided by the aircraft carrier USS Ticonderoga .[1]

The DESOTO patrols were part of a larger scheme known as Operation 34A. Run by the Department of Defense at the time, Operation 34A, or “OPLAN 34Alpha” was a top secret program consisting primarily of covert actions against the North Vietnamese.[

Most of the answers to questions of this type are available on Wikipedia.


So I do have one more question. If the domino theory was a front for the truth, what were they covering up?

With Bush I understand it was to exact revenge on Saddam Hussein for Bush Sr, but I still don’t understand what Johnson’s motive was.


The domino theory wasn’t a front for the truth, it was a political theory. What was covered up was that there was no attack on a US ship in the gulf of tonkin.


This place can be very educational. I knew none of that.


I agree


But why, Wil?


I promise to answer soon. Need to pay some attention to my woman.


:slight_smile:️ I completely understand!:hugs:


January 20, 1953 - Dwight D. Eisenhower, former five-star Army general and Allied commander in Europe during World War II, is inaugurated as the 34th U.S. President.

During his term, Eisenhower will greatly increase U.S. military aid to the French in Vietnam to prevent a Communist victory. U.S. military advisors will continue to accompany American supplies sent to Vietnam. To justify America’s financial commitment, Eisenhower will cite a ‘Domino Theory’ in which a Communist victory in Vietnam would result in surrounding countries falling one after another like a “falling row of dominoes.” The Domino Theory will be used by a succession of Presidents and their advisors to justify ever-deepening U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

August 3, 1964 - The Maddox , joined by a second destroyer U.S.S. C. Turner Joy begin a series of vigorous zigzags in the Gulf of Tonkin sailing to within eight miles of North Vietnam’s coast, while at the same time, South Vietnamese commandos in speed boats harass North Vietnamese defenses along the coastline. By nightfall, thunderstorms roll in, affecting the accuracy of electronic instruments on the destroyers. Crew members reading their instruments believe they have come under torpedo attack from North Vietnamese patrol boats. Both destroyers open fire on numerous apparent targets but there are no actual sightings of any attacking boats.

August 4, 1964 - Although immediate doubts arise concerning the validity of the second attack, the Joint Chiefs of Staff strongly recommend a retaliatory bombing raid against North Vietnam.

Press reports in America greatly embellish the second attack with spectacular eyewitness accounts although no journalists had been on board the destroyers.

August 6, 1964 - During a meeting in the Senate, McNamara is confronted by Senator Wayne Morse of Oregon who had been tipped off by someone in the Pentagon that the Maddox had in fact been involved in the South Vietnamese commando raids against North Vietnam and thus was not the victim of an “unprovoked” attack. McNamara responds that the U.S. Navy “…played absolutely no part in, was not associated with, was not aware of, any South Vietnamese actions, if there were any…”

August 7, 1964 - In response to the two incidents involving the Maddox and Turner Joy , the U.S. Congress, at the behest of President Johnson, overwhelmingly passes the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution put forward by the White House allowing the President “to take all necessary steps, including the use of armed force” to prevent further attacks against U.S. forces. The Resolution, passed unanimously in the House and 98-2 in the Senate, grants enormous power to President Johnson to wage an undeclared war in Vietnam from the White House.

It’s all there on the internet Michelle.


I didn’t know the details of that. I did know about My Lai, which is also interesting reading/watching. Governments wage war for their own power mad political reasons and then lie to justify it, every single time. I don’t believe the US is any worse than any other world superpower on this, but they’re certainly no better either. One day the human race will move beyond wars, but we don’t seem close to that day today. On the contrary, we are electing moronic and petulant children to leadership all around the world.


Exactly right.


What do you do for the dead?


Remember this name: Praggnanandhaa Rameshbabu

Ok, I won’t remember it either but he could be a champion. He’s 13 and an FIDE Grandmaster, rated 2500.


Heard about him a few months ago.

Carlsen vs caruana starts tomorrow in London. I’d love if an American won.


I’d be happy if Caruana won, too. Carlsen has just never done anything for me.

PS: I don’t know what a grandmaster looks like but I would’ve bet real money it wasn’t this. I’d have lost.


Nbody beats a chess game like Kurt Russell in the 1982 Thing.
If you have seen it too, you would agree.