I know I can read about them but I want to know what the world believes about them.

Isa went to a Jesuit university.

I don’t know about the world but they would not fit in my theological circles because they are Catholic. That said, I believe them to be very devoted to higher education, science, missionary work and philosophy. In fact, I do share one position with them, albeit with some differences, which is strong defense of free will that they and I to some extent base on a view called “Molinism” (middle knowledge). This theological position was first introduced by Luis De Molina who was a Jesuit.

I am big on soteriological debate and for this reason alone I have a lot of respect for the philosophy that came through the Jesuits to logically support free will. Much of my debate is against Calvinists who believe everything is per-determined by God and base this on that if God knows all things then he must have pre-determined all things in creation. Therein, raises the question of the P.O.E. (Problem of Evil) yet we know, or should know that God is only Good and has no evil in Him. Molinism helps to logically explain how God’s knowledge can do both, know all things yet interact with volitional human beings of His making within time. Or as I would argue against a Determinist that assigning evil to God unavoidably leads directly to Theological Fatalism.

Anyway, when I hear the name, Jesuit, that is the first thing thought that always comes to mind - that they are devoted to education, philosophy and defenders of the faith who maintain human volition through a view of Molinism.

I asked you what you believe and you responded by telling me you believe Isa went to a Jesuit university?

Are all Catholics Jesuits?

True or false
The Bible is true. The way we were taught was not right.

Correct. I’ve never felt the need to stay on topic or answer every question here.

Definitely not.



If you haven’t been educated on the subject just say so. [quote=“Reg, post:5, topic:1039”]


Would you like to elaborate?

I didn’t say that. I actually know quite a bit about the Jesuits, although I’m no expert on them. I just didn’t type it here. They are enemies of the Reformation, by the way, so if you’re toying with their doctrine, you’ll need to choose between them and Luther.

Also by the way, Pontificia Universidad Javeriana (where Isa got her Master’s degree in Biology and Entomology) is one of the oldest and best schools in the world (397 years to be exact).

No. We see this differently. I think sweating over predestination vs free will is foolish nonsense for intellectual children. That said, I am not trying to convince you of anything and I don’t think you’ll go to eternal Hell if you don’t believe as I do.

I don’t think you have the ability to convince me of anything and going to hell is a personal preference, only fools gravitate toward.

Then it’s good I don’t try. :smiley:

Then it’s good you don’t gravitate toward that. :smiley:

I’ve never known you to avoid serious discussions about the world. All of a sudden, you don’t take the world seriously? Bizarre! That’s okay. I can only assume you’re sweating, unless you are like Hillary Clinton, who does not sweat. [quote=“Reg, post:9, topic:1039”]
Then it’s good you don’t gravitate toward that. :smiley:

It’s a pity you do.

So I was asking about how we learned Gods Word and if we were not taught right.

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Luke 23:43

This implies we are with Jesus from the moment we pass.

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”

This implies Jesus gave His Word of Promise to the dying thief on the cross who verbally expressed his faith in our Lord when he cried out to Him.

Which is right or are both true?

On the contrary. I’m wondering if they have toyed with God’s Word.

I take the world very seriously. I don’t take this topic very seriously. In fact, I don’t take hermeneutics seriously in general.

You seriously think that? You’d be mistaken but don’t let me discourage you. Think that if you wish. :slight_smile:

No, not all Catholics are Jesuits, but I think you could say all Jesuits are Catholic.

Of course the Bible is true. Not sure why you would ask me this question or what it is in regards to?

We are told to rightly divide the Word of Truth, to beware of false teachers, warned of wolves in sheep’s clothing, to study to show thyself approved, to be not conformed to this world but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.prove, and another one of my favorites - to be like a Berean, who listened to Paul’s preaching and right away went to compare it to the Word of God, This is what Paul said about their practices:

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Are you like a a Berean, AgeofGrace?

The Arminians, who believe in free will, the largest sector Protestant theology, were also part of the Reformation. The fact that many Calvinist like to claim that they have a monopoly on owning the term, claiming “Reformation” as a Determinist doctrine, it doesn’t make this so. The Calvinists/Determinists also claim to preach the “Gospel of Grace” as if they a monopoly on Grace, yet the Gospel I preach is more inclusive than theirs and not limiting God’s Grace to only those whose who were lucky enough to be specially pre-selected before the foundation of the world leaving all others with no hope. YES, there is hope for you Reg, and YOU have no excuse not to respond to the truths of God! :wink:

LOL, your ignorance about the value of soteriology, the way a person is saved, as an Atheist who thinks this matter unimportant would certainly expose who is a foolish child. If only you understood how you fit the meaning in this passage, you would also understand why I find you blindly foolish:

Rom 1:18-25 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; (19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. (20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, (23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I don’t think so. I’m more a repenting apostate.

Punctuation was not in the original Hebrew and has the potential to change the way scripture is read. Some of the things that are coming out make me question if things have been purposefully done to the Bible to make it appear contradictory.

I’m an unrepentant apostate. See, we’re pretty close.

Sure, Reg, like an earthquake and a tornado.

In a sense, God, through the Progressive Revelation which helps us who love the truth, see it and know the Word as true, also becomes part of God’s judgment against those who do not love the truth, those who will have no excuse and respond with foolishness, mocking, scoffing and deny their Creator. This is why we told not to throw our pearls before swine, to dust off our feet, etc. but we know that God is able and has preserved the Word of Truth, the Light for those who seek it.

2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Psa 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. (7) Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

1Jn 1:1-5 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (2) (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) (3) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (4) And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. (5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.